Throng

David Maxfield

This documetary was discredited in the UK.Also see Youtube for the producer facing some awkward questions and giving unconvincing answers.
As for Leighton Smith, when I asked him on his show why is it that societies that represent experts in this hugely complex field, namely the Met Services of the USA, UK, AUstralia, China, Sweden , India - ALL state Global Warming is real and has a man made component, he referred me to a website (climatescience.org.nz)
, the chairman of which, clearly knew nothing of science and got abusive when I pointed out that several of the experts he quotes, make incorrect claims about their CV (namely Tim Ball) .
Why not investigate the famous 31,000 signature petition of so-called scientific skeptics - you'll find like Science magazine did that when you weed out fakes like Redwine (Phd), Gerri Helliwell (of the Spice Girls), that only around 200 climatologists are on it - a tiny fraction of the overall total.In other words, there was absolutly no checking when it was compiled, anyone could get on it.

Jennis Blab

Found it interesting that Prime felt it necessary to state at the beginning of the doco that it was not Primes views being stated in the doco. Wonder if a disclaimer is shown each time Al Gores fantasy is aired? Also Eric young did a very poor job of reigning in the funded fanatics in the debate. Making snide remarks and smirking at your opposition undermines anything you have to say, Leighton Smith and Dr Lange displayed remarkable restraint. Dr Wratt and Cindy Baxter were an embaressment to their cause.

campgrrls

I agree with a lot of your points, Rachel. I also don't like some business people try to find a way to use the "green" thing to sell stuff. look at the fuel shortages caused by the **** to biofuel production.

Why aren't we told to make the changes? Because we live in a democracy & most politicians are just looking as far ahead as the next election. Because big business has powerful control over politics - especially in the US (Obama included). And because the changes won't happen tomorrow but fairly soon into the future. So many people figure there's enuff wriggle room for technology to provide a solution before anything drastic happens. Because climate scientist have more knowledge about it than most others, and like many people here, loads of people are suspicious of "experts".

I agree that no doco (by Gore or the sceptics) would make up my mind. I thought the more compelling evidence was in the Stern Report. That was the one that influenced governments & many business people. But as you can see, while global warming seems certain, there's not a definite date of when it will take effect or exactly how much.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_reviews/stern_review_economics_climate_change/sternreview_summary.cfm

Rachel

Ah ok - a lot of people confuse CO2 with CO that's all. Anything can be deadly in large quantities, even oxygen. But C02 is also vital for our planet and for us.

I'm very suspicious of the ridiculous amounts of money being made from global warming and "being green" and think that if things were as dire as some predict, then drastic changes could be enforced - not just tiny ones.

I sit on the fence with regards to the science of human actions causing the earth to warm and I'm not going to have my mind made up for me by the media.

TV Blogger

So, Global Warming may, or may not be aided by my 1.3L Fiat Punto.
I'm leaning toward the latter, Bygones.
What I thought was great was how absurd the pro global warming activists looked in the post doco debate.
Every-time Leighton, or the professor from Waikato Uni tried to say something, that overly feminine lab rat on the right wouldn't let them get a word in.
Initially it was annoying with Eric not reigning him in even once. Still, by the end of the doco Leighton and the Waikato professor had worked him up into such a sweat it looked like his pint-sized head was about to explode right there on set.

He was sort of reminiscent of that (thought he was smart but actually wasn't) weird kid in school who would pipe up at every opportunity only to get shot down by the teacher. Then argue the point even though it was painfully apparent how wrong he was. You'd be sitting there going, 'come on buddy, don't make it worse, sit down'... Or perhaps just throw something at him.

Finally, what was up with that campaigner Woman. I get that they had to have a Woman somewhere on the panel, but surely they could have found a talented female scientist, as opposed to some Hemp-wearing hippie who says. 'I've taken it upon myself to challenge the skeptical climate change scientists head-on.'
"RIght, so you have some form of scientific training/degree then?"
"Ummmmm, NO!"

One wonders if this lot was also heralding the global-cooling tirade in the 70s.

campgrrls

That too Rachel. But there is a medical condition relating to carbon dioxide poisoning. Can come in the form of dry ice, for instance.

http://www.dupagehealth.org/health_alert/co2_alert.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_2069794_treat-carbon-dioxide-poisoning.html

http://www.emedmag.com/html/pre/tox/0500.asp

http://www.analox.net/site/content_HOSP_co2_dangers.php

Less likely to be something a person would pump into their garage to top themselves, I know. But still poisonous to humans if too much is inhaled.

Rachel

Try locking yourself in a garage and pumping CO2 into it to see how "healthy" it is in large amounts.

Don't you mean carbon monoxide?

Just me

..... oh wow man I am soon to get a $100,000 fine in the post by the spelling police for using "colothing" it looks like I will not be around any longer. I will have no option but to spend the next 200 years in prison with hard labor. To make matter worse I am sorry I "fell out of the tree" with my bad temper" - to be honest I just dont know were the extra 'o' came from, once again I am just so sorry, BIG [BUZZ]ing DEAL!

Just me

Come on Yuri (or anyone one else) put your money were you mouth is were is the

(even though you're challenged spelling-wise)

is What a load of BULL! in respect I do bloody well compared to say TV1 news readers who get paid megabuck for "talking" sh;t e.g.
Belly up (bankrupt)
across the ditch (across the Tasman)
ODT (Otago Daily Times)
Kidds (Chlidren)
just too menstion a few. dont hand me crap without prove when you watch others who dont set a good example, Richard.

campgrrls

Yes, and the earth is flat. I know this because every time I walk across the room or down the street, I would fall over if the earth was curved. Scientists have proved again and again that there's a conspiracy between other scientists to convince people that the earth is round - they just get paid a lot of research money to write earth is round reports.

CO2 is needed for life, but it becomes poisonous if it gets out of balance with other gases. Try locking yourself in a garage and pumping CO2 into it to see how "healthy" it is in large amounts.

Yes there are uncertainties around the science as to exactly how much human activities are contributing to global warming, and around various details relating to it. But the fact is global warming is happening.

If we do nothing to cut down on CO2 gases in the air, life as we know it will die. There will be no-one left o drive your precious SUVs, use all the electrical goods or burn electricity.

The Arctic ice is already melting at an alarming rate, and an enormous amount of species are dying out.

Shonky science will be no protection when you or your children or grandchildren etc find they have no future but a world descending into chaos.

Dan77

That was a compelling documentary, I'm glad Prime aired it. After listening to the debate between the panel of experts it appears that those in support of the global warming theory being the direct result of greenhouse gas emissions cannot furnish any undeniable evidence that this is actually the case. This is not to say that methodologically the theory they present isn't very well constructed, however the initial assumption it's based on is falsified by the measurements on temperature fluctuation. Basically because the theory fails to line up accurately enough with the facts it is therefore invalidated as a result.

Furthermore, even if they could falsify every other current theory explaining temperature change, such as whether or not the sun causes climate change instead, does not validate or legitimise the theory of carbon emissions being the leading cause of global warming even if we could undeniably prove temperature rise.

Its totally irrelevant what we AIM to do as "just me" points out. If we aren't actually the cause then we are quite entitled to continue to drive SUVs which are a major cause of emissions, that we shouldn't because they cause pollution is another argument entirely and also is totally irrelevant to whether humans are the cause of global warming (if it even exists). Maybe we are lazy, good for nothing etc. but I hope we're at least not as deluded as it appears those who hold the belief that we are the direct cause of climate change.

Yuri to Just me

Well "just me", you've convinced ME. People dry their clothes in a dryer and drive cars plus the sun goes up in the morning and down in the evening ERGO GLOBAL WARMING MUST BE TRUE - you've made me see the light (even though you're challenged spelling-wise).

Just me

never listen to broadcasters from the like of talk-back radio station they are full of crap and dont know jack sh;t, they just go with the flow to earn a buck.

The thing that should of been brought out is today.
We are just to quick to turn on the heater full bore than to put on extra warm colothing.

People today are just too lazy to put cloths out on the cloths line on a hot summer day were it could dry a lot faster than in the cloths dryer, they just love using the cloths dryers.

To a lesser effect today because of the sky rocketing price of oil people prefer to use their car than their feet.

Think about it "we" never had these options 500 years ago, WE ARE DOING OUR BEST TO HEAT THE PLANET, and bring on global warming.

Yuri M.

Ha ha it's been fun watching these losers in their patched old corduroy jackets from the 70's. They are as intransigent as old-time Darwinians or Freudians, and just as out of date.
The Swindle movie was very good, straight, common-sense.

neil stuart

in watching the debate on tv, the actions of the people pro versus against, resorted to talking down the against side,showing a basic uneasinesss with their own potency of argument.

indey

Professor Carl Wunsch clearly doesn't want to be associated with dissenting views... not now. If you listen to what he says in the doco, then he really is a capitulating to pressure by turn-coating. Is he saying that the editors somehow tricked him into his commentary. I doubt it.
Everything presented in this doco has subsequently been affirmed and even reinforced by studies and empirical evidence. Now that the correlation between sunspot cycles and temperature is shown to be so strong and data emerges every day to back it up, AGW proponents are desperately coming up with new hypothesis to explain away the recent cooling... saying that natural varaibility is masking AGW... Ocean currents etc.
So, Go..(is that short for Gore?) the tide has turned and intelligent people who are free thinkers and like to investigate for themselves wont be discouraged by your dissuasions.

Al Gore and his Algorian disciples are into profiteering and will try attempt to discredit any "accomplished" scientist who even hints that the science is not settled. Consensus is not science and soon the "people" will be enlightened.. not only is the world not flat, that they are not the criminals who are inducing a fever on the planet.

So, to all investors in Carbon offset schemes.. make sure you get out before the big AGW crash... because you investment maybe frozen.. literally!

Bring on more CO2. It may be our saving grace as the world chills!

Rachel

Looking forward to the discussion after the doco tonight.

SniffNtheTearsAway

Another have for Big Business, Govts to get a Monopoly over the Sheeple. They are the biggest Hypocrites here with FTA's with China who blatantly spew out poisonous gasses into the atmosphere. The carbontaxes we pay go into a black hole anyway ay

Fozzy Bear

Ha-Ha! .. classic.

TVNZ would have shown it, but they lost the rights to sky. Just like the rugby, F1, anything good.....

regan

I am shocked that TVNZ would even consider showing it

Not as shocked as you will be when you realise it's actually on Prime.

Gotta love people complaining about facts!

Go

Once again this discredited 'documentary' shows it's ugly head. I am shocked that TVNZ would even consider showing it considering the complete rubbishing it has had in the UK.

Even the scientists on the show don't agree with the show's ideas, for example, Professor Carl Wunsch commented:

"I am angry because they completely misrepresented me. My views were distorted by the context in which they placed them. I was misled as to what it was going to be about. I was told about six months ago that this was to be a programme about how complicated it is to understand what is going on. If they had told me even the title of the programme, I would have absolutely refused to be on it. I am the one who has been swindled." (Geoffrey Lean, ‘Climate change: An inconvenient truth... for C4,’ The Independent, March 11, 2007; http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/ climate_change/article2347526.ece)

Don't waste your time with this poorly made propaganda. For a complete write up, please see:
http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pure_propaganda_the.php
and
http://medialens.org/alerts/07/0321climate_swindle_the.php

meh

Here is what really stumps me about CO2 being the cause of global warming....

CO2 for plants is what oxygen is to us

1. If we are serious about CO2 we should stop deforestation as a priority.

2. If humans are the cause of global warming why is Mars and now Jupiter showing increases in temp ?

There are more obvious things we can fix which are clearly linked.

*Acid Rain causing polution.
*Ocean bottom trawling.
*Putting our poo into the ocean.
*Deforestation.

While i don't doubt climate change, I do doubt the causes cited by those with much to gain thru a global carbon tax.

CO2 is a vital gas for this planet, without it all our plants would die.

- Meh

campgrrls

Oh, and here's a link to Russell Brown's comments on the Swindle doco - the one headed "Shonky Scepticism"

http://publicaddress.net/default,4026.sm#post4026

And here is some of what Brown said about the doco:

the programme's main hypothesis - the solar radiation theory - is not widely supported by scientists working in the area and that, indeed, quite a few of its scientific claims are extremely dubious.

Since the programme aired in Britain it was emerged that one of its onscreen experts, Dr. Tim Ball, described as a Climatologist and Professor Emeritus of Geography at the University of Winnipeg, is in fact nothing of the kind (his academic career ended in 1995, he is paid by oil and gas industry interests and he was never granted an Emeritus professorship), and the university has previously requested that he cease presenting himself as such.

Plus Brown provides some evidence of dubious claims made in the doco.

The discussion that follows the Brown comments also includes some discussion of the CO2 issue, with arguments about why the claims that CO2 isn't a problem are wrong.

campgrrls

Well I think there is a good mix on the panel that will discuss the film.

OTOH, how many people accept the claims of the film without knowing much about the issues. I've been following the debates for a long time. the supposed long list of scientist against the idea of man-made or at least man-accelerated global warming is a bit of a scam. They claim scientists on their supposed long list of anti-global warming people, who actually don't support their theories. Also many of the scientists who oppose theories about global warming aren't climate scientists. They're in some other field of science and have no expertise in climate science.

In fact, there is a strong consensus among scientists that global warming is happening and that humans have added to it in a way that is becoming dangerous. There's been quite a bit of analysis about how the anti-global warming groups (largely supported by big oil) have made it seem like there are 2 equal side s to the debate.

I think the panel discussion will be more significant than the film.

jhjh2000

better save that sorry

Mr_Anderson

just think about it Y would people make up of the theory of man-made global warming..

Why!? Well shucks, hundreds of billions to be made in 'green' campaigns.......get a clue.

In the 70's it was a scare of global cooling....learn some basic history before commenting.

Rachel

You can argue that both ways - there is also a massive amount of money to be made from Climate Change by both governments and big businesses.

jhjh2000

how many highly qualified skeptics seriously doubt gw that brought off by big companys to say "GW is a hoax?

Jarodm

I agree, a must see documentary! GW is a hoax.

Humans are the new enemy, but they want our cash first.

I am all for awareness for caring about the environment, but I am against more taxation and fines. There are horror stories particularly in the UK about people being fined thousands of pounds for ridiculous things: Some councils have power to sift through your rubbish and if they find something that could have been recycled-they will fine you big money.

If they were serious about "reducing harmful emissions" they would not have halted the production of the fully-electric car in the 90's, they recalled and destroyed every one of them. Years later you still can only buy a hybrid and they now say "we will have an electric car by 2012." See the doco "Who Killed The Electric Car?"

Q: What do you consider the leading threat to the environment?

A: "Human population growth is probably the single most serious long-term threat to survival. We're in for a major disaster if it isn't curbed--not just for the natural world, but for the human world. The more people there are, the more resources they'll consume, the more pollution they'll create, the more fighting they will do. We have no option. If it isn't controlled voluntarily, it will be controlled involuntarily by an increase in disease, starvation and war."

-Interview with HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, in People Dec. 21, 1981 titled 'Vanishing Breeds Worry Prince Philip, But Not as Much as Overpopulation.'

"In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation."

-Reported by Deutsche Press Agentur (DPA), August, 1988.

Brocke Lever

I found this documentary very informative! At first it seemed outrageous to me that governments, international organisations and scientists would all either get it wrong or deliberately mislead the general public. After a bit of research it became quite clear to me that the whole concept of "Global Warming" is false. There are literally THOUSANDS of scientists that do not want their names connected with the global warming myth simply because it is so obviously false. They have even stopped calling it "Global Warming" haven't you noticed that it is now "Climate Change" that we are being told to fear. I have even read articles talking about "Climate Collapse"! Don't blindly believe this rubbish, go out and do some research. Find out how many highly qualified skeptics seriously doubt that we are under threat from "climate change", especially from CO2 which is a beneficial gas that plants need to grow and produce oxygen.